Letter 2 to and from The ekklesia

Letters from The ekklesia #2

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Hitler's system here! Eating you up.

social security deception [the beast]? Commune... ism

Israel vs Gentile Nationalism and religion

Jesus or not - Obey or not - choose or not Freedom of faith

Common Law and Sovereignty Who's Constitution

'Religious Discussions' Jew or Christian

Who are we? Never enough ....

Do a word search to find letters of interest or write Gregory at ekklesia@presys.com

Hitler's system here!
jana4c@axion.net wrote:
>... Your life is
> really about FOOD, ...
> I suggest you sneak into a sheep ranch, or a cattle ranch and watch how the animals are treated.
We don't have to sneak. We are already there.
> Are they ever consulted as to their fate? No!
> Are they separated from their young? Yes!
Those sheep and cows that produce we let their young stay for the future of the herd.
It is part of our natural selection system. Those that don't produce we eat or sell. We aint runnin' no welfare state.

> Are the drugged? Yes!
We don't drug ours.

>Do they eat chemically enhanced foods? Yes!
We don't do that either.

> Are they castrated (Rocky Mountain Oysters)? Yes!
Only the best are kept for breeding. I use to ride a stud but he died. Now I ride mares and leave the geldings to the bachelors and the divorced. If you don't castrate some the bulls will fight all day and ride the cows to death. The same for the sheep. Also they would breed all the time and many would die being born in the wrong season.

> Are they exploited? Yes!
Not any more than they exploit me. I put up hay all summer in the hot sun so they don't starve in the winter or slough their calves. I drive off coyotes, and cougars and bob cats, for the sheep. The cows, I just leave their horns on them. They can fight their own battles. I watch them at calving and take care of them when they're sick. I build barns to shelter them. I had a neighbor who's cows got into his hay stack. They ruined tons of hay by urinating on it and defecating on it before he chased them out. It was still summer and we had to pitch the broken bails into carts and trucks by hand.
He stopped for a breather and looked out at the cows and said, "Ya ever see such a dumb animal. Ruin all this hay and then starve this winter. Nothin' is dumber than that."
Well I just had to stop with sweat runnin' off us both and the sun beatin' down and the cows laying over in the shade chewing their cud.
"Well for dumb animals they sure got us workin' awfull hard for them."

> Are they bred? Yes!
I don't do it myself. I let the bulls and the rams do that. I don't even make 'em get a license and they don't have to pay child support either.

>Are they slaughtered? Yes!
Not all of them. As long as the herd can keep us healthy we can keep the herd healthy. Its kind of a symbiotic relationship.
> Does anyone recognize that these so-called "animals" are living Beings with feelings? "NO," YOU SAY. "ANIMALS ARE FOOD, THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS!" If that's what you think you're WRONG, 'way WRONG.
We recognize their rights but they have a debt to pay to us too. We feed them, care for them, doctor them, protect them. We are benevolent dictators. We don't keep them alive with our sweat just for the fun of it. We don't even eat much meat, more vegetables which we grow ourselves from seeds we grow ourselves.
I haven't gone deer hunting since I bought my first sheep but I feed a lot of deer with hay and feed that we produce and pastures we irrigate and tend, to say nothing of the rabbits, birds, raccoons etc that live in the environment we created in this desert..

> I once read an undercover expose about a veal farm. The undercover journalist was touring the indoor pens where the calves were imprisoned.
Don't eat it myself and don't raise it either. We don't even butcher young steers or lambs in prime. We only eat the old cows and mutton. The ones that can't keep up or the ones that don't or have stopped producing their share.

> Someone once said, "The only way for evil to triumph (or flourish) is for good people to do nothing."
You don't need to sneak on a ranch you need to work on one and figure out how it all works together and how to survive. The Bible says "And as for the people, he removed them to cities from [one] end of the borders of Egypt even to the [other] end thereof. Genesis 47:21
You have lived in civil society to long which is where the Pharaoh put you. You need to learn how it works so you know how you were made into livestock. You can also learn about present day American economics with all those human resources out there who are feeding the new world order with their own flesh and blood. The benefits granted you bind you into the herd and to the master who controls your life. It is the old world order it just seems new to you, but your just livestock yourself.
When I call my cows and sheep they come to me. They like me I am a benevolent ruler.

> [Gen 1:29] And God [NEVER] said, Behold, I have given [MONSANTO] every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the Earth, and every tree, in which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; [NOR DID GOD SAY] to [ADM] it shall be [YOUR] food [TO SELL FOR PROFIT].
What he did was move them under a civil authority and many also learn to live in the city so that they lost sight of the ways of slavery.
The Bible also says. And it shall come to pass in the increase, that ye shall give the fifth [part] unto Pharaoh, and four parts shall be your own, for seed of the field, and for your food, and for them of your households, and for food for your little ones. And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants. Genesis 47:24, 25
The Israelites paid one fifth of their labor and they called themselves slaves. US citizens with a social security number pay much more than that and they call it freedom.
Who is the dumb animal?

You have lost your land.
You have lost a right to your labor.
US citizens are subjects, servants, human resources. Nothing more than livestock.
They don't have a ear tag like our cows but they have a card in their hands or have memorized the number, their badge of servitude, in their heads.
It also said in the Bible to, "dress it and keep it." (Ge 2:15) That's what we do. Everybody knows there is no profit in ranchin'. We put a hundred dollars of sweat in and were lucky to get 20 dollars back.

> Foil the New World Order (aka Old World Disorder)! Plow up your fancy lawns and plant FOOD!
Not a bad idea but that might not be enough. You need to get a bigger picture and learn what it means to raise animals.

> Whosoever controleth thy food supply, controleth thee!

My youngest daughter can move 200000 pounds of protein, shoe leather and wool blankets at one time just by herding cows and sheep across the desert. Try that with a garden.
You want somethin' to worry about worry about, where you're going to get something to eat when the world changes and you can't buy any more food.

The Rogue Butterfly
> Scribe in the Ancient Language of Thrill

We are all going to get some thrills sooner than we may like.
Some times shift happens...
Gregory at the ekklesia in the high deserts
home page

Do a word search to find letters of interest or write Gregory at ekklesia@presys.com
Alan wrote:
Social Security deception [the beast]? Commune... ism
> I believe that you are learning something that ALL of us will
> find out before the year is out [Y2K, etc.] and this is that IF
> we are to be self-sufficient from the BEAST we can NOT go it
> alone. The Jewish holocaust survivors went through hell, however
> this suffering UNITED THEM... that's how their self-sufficient
> farming communities or kibbutz's came into being... you just
> need to link up with others in your area who KNOW that the Tower
> of Babel is about to fall and KNOW that they must unite in a
> communal spirit in order to survive. ...

      This is a good idea but it is also a catch 22. People who are looking for groups are often not willing to stand alone and they will drag you down and eat out your substance. They see their socialistic system collapsing and are looking for another hand out. They are often full of words but the truth and the way is not written on their hearts.
      We need also to be like Joshua.
      Joshua 24:15 . And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
      We do not make our neighbor pay for our children's education, we do not ask them or force them to send their sons to fight in foreign lands so we can buy gas cheaper or some multi national company can make billions. We take no unemployment, aid, welfare .... We live or die by the sweat of our own brow and no one else's. We depend on no other gods but the God who made us. There are those who are bonded in the system but not in their hearts.
      1 Corinthians 7:21 Art thou called [being] a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use [it] rather.
      They are honorable and righteous in their bondage. They will be looking for those with Christ's heart and mind when this system fails.
      And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations. Luke 16:9
     We who know now must go and prepare places for them now but we also need to know how to do this work, otherwise we will be devoured by those locusts and parasites that will stalk the faithful. Those who are learning the way know that evil flees like cockroaches from the light.
Be a light in word and deed.
Apply, pray to The God for the path you must take.
Prepare by doing the will of God.
Let Him write his ways upon your hearts and your minds.
Gregory at the ekklesia
http://presys.com/~ekklesia/bookgods.htm

Letter to Mesharet
Re: NATURAL ISRAEL IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE GENTILE NATIONS ("Gregory" , December 26, 1998)
      I am not sure what you call natural Israel.
A Nation is a people, usually a blood line but also by adoption.
A Country is land, territory, a.k.a. terra firma.
A Government is a corporate entity, a personification of men, a.k.a. idol made by men.

      At least 10 of the twelve tribes of Israel denounced the heir to the throne of David, the anointed and rightful King of Israel [although not righteous], the Messiah [anointed], under Rehoboam, .. They became the Kingdom of Israel without the king. At the time of the Roman presence in Israel the country, they lived in great numbers outside of the Empires influence to the North according to Josephus a historian of the time.
      So when all Israel saw that the King hearkened not unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither [have we] inheritance in the son of Jesse: to your tents, O Israel: now see to thine own house, David. So Israel departed unto their tents. But [as for] the children of Israel which dwelt in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them. 1Kings 12:16, 17
      The first government of men was created by Cain.
      And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. Genesis 4:17
      Even though he was told not to by God but to be a wanderer, assumedly to learn to trust in God again.
      When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. Genesis 4:12
      It was obviously a socialistic authoritarian civil creation where people gave up some of their God given rights in exchange for the protection of the gods of the city, made corporate government.
      Gods of the city like Lemech, and Nimrod. Nimrod was a mighty provider instead of the LORD because men covenanted away through legal (binding) contracts their own souls (corporeal and incorporeal hereditaments of their own personality) to the corporate government of Nimrod in exchange for his protection from thieves, robbers, and acts of other gods and the God, YHWH.
      When Abram's brother was put to death by order of the King (a.k.a. god of the city) of Ur, he and his family left (came out, a.k.a. ekklesia) and began their own city in the name of their dead brother and son.
      Abram was inspired that the problem was not which civil government you trusted in but that you trusted in one at all. So he became a wanderer in the wilderness and began to trust in the LORD.
      Some would think he just didn't like to pay the civil tax. Since he could not see this inspiring God he burned up what would be the tax
      When he finally cultivated his faith to the point where he refused even a buckle benefit of civil government he was said to walk with the LORD.
      Who has the Faith of Abraham? Who will walk in this wilderness of the Spirit and trust in the LORD rather than the gifts, gratuities and benefits civil government?
      The gate is narrow and the government of men can not storm the walls of heaven. Wide is their path.
      Was it any different with Moses?
      In which time Moses was born, and was exceeding fair, and nourished up in his father's house three months: Acts 7:20
      Moses was the god of the city in the above quote exceeding fair is translated from two words.
2316 theos {theh'-os} n m AV - 1) a god
791 asteios {as-ti'-os} from astu (a city);; adj AV - fair 1, proper 1; 2 1) of the city

      He became the god of the city because he was adopted as the son of the daughter of Pharaoh.
      When he said, "Let my people go" he was talking about his inheritance, his adopted birth right. He was redeeming his people.
      " Redemption is deliverance from the power of an alien dominion and the enjoyment of the resulting freedom. It involves the idea of restoration to one who possesses a more fundamental right or interest. The best example of redemption in the Old Testament was the deliverance of the children of Israel from bondage, from the dominion of the alien power in Egypt." Zondervan's Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible
      John the Baptist should have been the high priest, and really was but he was not found in the civil temple of that temporal government. He was found in the wilderness where he had taken the laver for washing.
      Jesus preached in the wilderness and his ministry grew and they followed him farther and farther into the wilderness. Those people knew they were going dangerously far from the markets of men but they kept going in faith, and he fed them when they were hungry. Who will go with the LORD?
      When he came to the city of Jerusalem and those who occupied the temple of cut stone, the civil government, cried, 'We have no king but Caesar,' they were denouncing the rightful and righteous King of Israel who was also the King of Judae. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke 23:38
      Those who follow in word and deed the teachings of Jesus, Yahshua, are members of his ekklesia, Kingdom, a.k.a. Church. Those who swear their allegiance, lives, property and service to other Kingdoms are not in His Kingdom.
      All civil governments of men hold authority over the lives of the men in those civil governments. Not just when they injure or infringe upon the rights of their fellow man but even when they do not fasten their seat belts etc., etc., etc. These man made governments of men are based on coveting the labor of your neighbor where he is compelled at the point of a gun and threat of imprisonment to pay for the whims of the mob. Even in your democracies 51% of the people are taking away the rights of the other 49%.
      This is not what Jesus came to teach us. These civil governments are not the government of which he is King, the Messiah. Neither in Israel the government of men, nor in the United States Federal government.
      But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Matt 20: 25,28
      In these civil governments the goods, sweat, life and blood of men are taken away at gun point to supply the masses with their own desires. In a civil democracy each man may take on the sin of Cain, Lemech, Nimrod, Pharaoh and Caesar and compel his neighbor to care for him. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/rvd.htm
      We can make men Demagogue of us as we establish them King, Emperor and master over our own fate. Anointing them Messiah by vote, apathy, avarice, greed, pride, chosen ignorance and fear. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/dvd.htm
      Is this the king or government you live under, serve, participate in, apply to? Who is your Master?
      When Jesus was pronounced King by Pontius Pilot , procurator of the Roman Civil Government a refuge from Civil authority was created for all who professed him King.
      In Gibbon's Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, he praised "the union and discipline of the Christian republic." He also pointed out that "it gradually formed an independent and increasing state in the heart of the Roman Empire."
      Today, all the churches claim only a spiritual dominion but they choose to go under the authority of civil government for the benefits of government. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/bvb.htm
      The people have returned to the vomit not walking like Abraham or Moses or Jesus who "cared not for any man" Who did not pay for the privileges of men or bow to the offices of civil government. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/gvg.htm
      And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any [man]: for thou regardest not the person of men. Matthew 22:16
      Men have chosen to be slaves, yet, call them selves free in their illusion. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/eve.htm
      They have already taken the mark and badge of servitude of the beast of the earth. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/chvca.htm
      They have looked to their civil idols and trusted the gifts of God to men and mammon.. http://presys.com/~ekklesia/movma.htm
      "Civil Law," "Roman Law" and "Roman Civil Law" are convertible phrases, meaning the same system of jurisprudence." Black's 3rd p 332.
      Yes ISRAEL IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE GENTILE NATIONS when it comes to civil government of man over man, brother at the mercy of brother but that is because they have knocked at the door of Rome and Babylon and have turned away from the King who is the son of the father in word and deed.
      "As long as we look to government to solve our problems we will always suffer tyranny" William Pitt.
      And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Revelation 18:4
Jesus or not - Obey or not - choose or not
("Gregory" , 11/14/98 21:57)
      Robinsonjd@aol.com wrote:
...
> First it might be better to say that we are all a part of GOD, for he is us
> and we are him in any form or shape that we wish to adorn upon ourselves.
> That would also answer that question about GOD being down here or not on
> Earth. GOD is on Earth for GOD is Earth as well as all other planets, stars,
> etc. GOD is indeed the very fabric of all that is know or shall ever be
> known.

This is at best a conclusion or maybe only an assumption into the character of "God." Since it is not a maxim or axiom except by faith it can not prove anything farther with out the application of more faith. I have three sons. They are not all me and I them. They to have free will but they also have a Father in whose house they live by privilege [to their Father] and right [to the rest of the world]. They did not build the house and therefore have no rule in it except by the Father. If they obey the Father their power and authority in the form of privilege will increase. If they disobey the reverse is liable to follow. They have the free will to choose. ...

> Now I will close this with some further thoughts for you to consider which
> could address your "life HE taught us to live." We can not dispute that GOD
> gave us free will of choice. So then I say to you this, if the one known as
> Jesus, the son of GOD who was also know as GOD himself by some of walked and
> taught us by example upon this world we call Earth. Then I ask you this
> simple question, Why were we given Free Will of Choice if GOD all along
> intended to tell us how to live our lives?

You have the free choice to walk off a ten story building but you may not have the choice not to fall. God may choose to grant you the power to walk on water or not for he also has free will. We are made in the image of the God who made us but if we choose to obey other gods we may be born again in a new image. To return to the first we may have to die to the second.
Jesus decided to obey even unto death and was given life more abundant. You may choose the same.

> And, how can GOD sit in judgement
> over us some day, when we each have the gift of Free Will of Choice? Do you
> see where this is coming from?

My sons, when I leave to go to the fields, may obey the wisdom of doing their chores or not but there may be "hell" to pay if they do not. If they do not collect the eggs and water the cow when the sun is shining they may have to do it in the dark of night.

> My opinion is that we have great
> contradictions in the bible in regards to Jesus as well as other things

I have wondered at what seems to be contradictions in the Bible but I have found on closer examination that the contradictions are in the perceptions and opinions of men as to what the Bible is really all about.

>and
> respectively what he came here for and what he did and what they really all
> mean. What I see supports the control and manipulation of our very being.
>
> In respect to sharing thoughts,
>
> Jon

I see nothing but advise from Jesus. He came, He served, He spoke, He chose to obey his Father, they killed him but he was given life more abundant.
Your Choice.
Gregory at the ekklesia

For Alan B: Common Law and Sovereignty Was: The Middle East ''Sting''
("Gregory" , 10/26/98 23:17)
      Re: Common Law and Sovereignty
My father was an attorney. When he graduated Summa Cum Laude and scored higher than anyone ever on the Texas Bar examine he was given an opportunity to speak in front of the Bar Association. His speech was on the principles and origin of the Common Law. It was applauded and praised then he was taken aside by the vice president of the Bar Association and advised to, "Never speak of the Common Law and the Law of Nature again to Attorneys."
When I first began to study the law I looked through his old books from school and noticed every chapter of Clark's Summary of American Law was underlined, bracketed and foot noted except two, Constitutional Law and the Common Law.

So I asked why Attorneys don't like the Common Law or study it. The Common Law is fairly simple, cost effective, and it is not subject to statute
"The laws of the Angles are threefold: common law, customs, and decrees of parliament."
[Leges "When the common law and statue law concur, the common law is to be preferred." 4 Coke,71. Angli� sunt tripartit�: jus commune, consuetudines, ac decreta comitiiorum.]
The Common Law and Statutory law are not the same nor are they both subject to each other. It is statute that is subject to Common Law. Statutory law is controlled by the legislator and the legislator is composed of whom? Attorneys!!
So statutory laws like equity are design for attorneys by attorney for the benefit of attorneys.
"Lawyers' houses are built on the heads of fools." G. Herbert.

So is there a difference between common Law and statutory law? Can you claim Constitutional rights without the Common Law or are they inexplicably linked. So could anyone reject the common Law as is common among attorneys, and still understand the Constitution?

"An important canon of construction is that constitutions must be construed with reference to common law, since, in most respects, the federal and state constitutions did not repudiate but cherished the established common law..... It has been said that without reference to this common law the language of the federal constitution could not be understood. This is due to the fact that this instrument and the plan of government of the United States were founded on the common law as established in England at the time of the Revolution. Therefore, it is a general rule that phrases in the Bill of Rights taken from the common law must be construed in reference to the latter." 16 Am Jur 2nd Section 113

George Smirnov wrote:
>
> Alan, I appreciate your zeal pursuing this "Common Law" issue.. Before I can
> take its application seriously, do you have an attorney in Constitutional Law
> that concurs with your opinion? Just one.. Please send me his name and a copy
> of his opinion so that I can review it.
Sincerely,
George Smirnov

Where would one find an attorney in Constitutional Law? Are there any competent ones to be secure?

"Lawyers are being graduated from law school by the thousands who have little knowledge of the constitution. When organizations seek a lawyer to instruct them on the Constitution they find it nearly impossible to secure one competent." The Committee on American Citizenship at the ABA, Denver, Co. July 14, 1926

If most judges, if not all, were once attorneys why would anyone expect them to have any degree of competence in Constitutional or Common Law. For allegiance to anything other than the Bar and money neither attorney or judge is competent concerning constitutional law and if there is no interest in the Common Law can anyone expect due process in the courts today?

"Due process of law. This term, which occurs in the amendments to the United States constitution and in the constitutions of several of the states, is considered by Coke as equivalent to the phrase 'law of the land' (used in the Magna Charta, c. 29), and is said by him to denote 'indictment or presentment of good and lawful men.' Coke, 2d Inst. 50. The full significance of the clause" law of the land" is said by Ruffin, C.J., to be that statutes which would deprive a citizen of the rights of person or property without regular trial according to the course and usage of the common law would not be the law of the land." 4 Dev. No. C. 15.

"No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded by the common law, than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person. free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear or unquestionable authority of law" Union Pac. R. v. Botsford, 141,U.S. 250, 251.

"People have not yet discovered they have been disenfranchised. Even lawyers can't stand to admit it. In any nation in which people's rights have been subordinated to the rights of the few, in any totalitarian nation, the first institution to be dismantled is the jury. I was, I am, afraid." -- Gerry Spence

If you think you are well educated because you read what they told you, you are mistaken.
."An ignorant people are easily betrayed, and a wicked people can never be ruled by the mild influence of their own laws." - Stansbury, 1828
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be ... " - Thomas Jefferson
Of course I am not a Sovereign but a slave to Jesus Christ.
Gregory at the ekklesia
Writings

'Religious Discussions'
("Gregory" , 11/04/98 22:57)
      Alan DeWalton wrote:
> I'm a little iffy
> however on discussions about the Talmud, the Kabballa and other
> such things as they tend to stray from the source, the Bible/Torah.

      Christ quoted from the Kabballa and from parts of what is the called the Torah today. He also knew "Roman civil law" terms which is the system of jurisprudence used today in the US and the new world order.
"Civil Law," "Roman Law" and "Roman Civil Law" are convertible phrases, meaning the same system of jurisprudence." Black's 3rd p 332.
All these things should be studied or at least looked at to decide the truth.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
      The word scriptures is graphe {graf-ay'} meaning "a writing, thing written" There was no bible at the time the Beloved Disciple wrote this but the old testament which included more than we find in the Bible now. The Bible is divinely inspired but if you are not when you read it you may be wrong in your interpretation of it.
" The civil law is what a people establishes for itself." .Jus civile est quod sibi populus constituit 1 Johns. N.Y.424, 426.
      If you interpret it by your own will then you are like the Romans and the NWO who made and make their own law. Like Cain we will oppress and suppress our brothers and sisters for we are not designed as God but like God, e.g. in His image.
"The civil law reduces the unwilling freedman to his original slavery; but the laws of the Angloes judge once manumitted as ever after free." Co. Litt. 137.
     We should also remember there were many writings that were considered inspired when a group of men took it upon themselves to limit the content of the Bible. Few people take the time to search the 'writings' to find out what was removed and why. But that is another story.
What is the covenant that the Lord God wants to make with the people of earth [Jew, Gentile, Israelite]??? ____________________________
> And people CAN discuss other
> religious beliefs if they wish, however they must be willing
> to accept responses to their posts from a 'Biblical' perspective
> since Eaglenet was founded on the same principles that the
> Judeo-Christian founders of the American Republic held to, and
> a large percentage of Eaglenet's members hold to those principles.
If we wish to discuss republics we need the input of knowledgeable and sincere "Jews" for no other reason than the experience in History with Republics.
"Some scholars regard the ancient confederation of Hebrew tribes that endured in Palestine from the 15th century BC until a monarchy was established about 1020 BC as an embryonic republic. That would make the ancient Israelite commonwealth the earliest republic in history and one of the oldest democracies; except for slaves and women, all members of the community had a voice in the selection of their administrators and were eligible for political office." 'Republic,' Microsoft r Encarta. c 1994 Ms. Corp. and F & W Corp.
      As far as religion is concerned I don't really care what prejudices, ideas and laws have been written in your minds or hearts by men and the lords of temporal organizations. I do not care what has been written in your minds by the limited writings or selected scripts of men inspired originally or not. What I care about is how you are letting the covenant of the LORD in to your hearts and minds.
Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Answer to the question:
What is the covenant that the Lord God wants to make with the people of earth [Jew, Gentile, Israelite]?
Jewish answer:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Christian answer:
Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Gregory at the ekklesia

The Covenats of the gods

Who are we? Never enough
("Gregory" , 11/14/98 08:32)
      Mark Brock-Farrington wrote:
      > Look... I understand where you 'are coming from' because I've been there
> myself. I'm not 'poor' now, but, I still live week to week, paycheck to
> paycheck, never really secure in my job... never knowing if this check will
> be my last one. Never knowing if I'll be unemployed and once again looking
> for work.

Dear Mark et al:
      I am not sure if you do know where Alan is coming from [I could be wrong] but Alan can speak for himself and probably will.
As for me:
      I haven't had a paycheck in twenty years. I am not unemployed but nonemployed. I have 6 children, all home taught and hand delivered. I own no property, no bank accounts but I and my family have never missed a meal except during fasts.
      I have never taken a government hand out, or unemployment or benefit of any kind. I have no social security number. I am a no account. Lets say I am over fifty [no birth certificate either].
      We live by faith and the sweat of our own brow. We are not US citizens but Americans. The government knows who I am and they give me a wide berth. They have told me I don't exist so they can't talk to me. My name is on a list in the Phoenix Project and deep down they would like to Rapture me. I have had at least one federal agent come 1500 miles to attend our gathering at Pentecost, That would be fifty days after Passover.
      If you do understand everything I am talking about then maybe you do know where Allen is coming from.
      I consider myself a descendant of Abraham and an Israelite and at least a slave to Christ. I spend my days pounding nails or fixing plumbing or watching sheep and cows for whom ever needs my labor. Payment? mostly trade since we are not into usury and we wont take oaths or sell our labor in service of those who would unequally yoke us.
> But, as long as I keep doing everything in my power (that is
> moral and ethical) ... That's all we should
> ask of ourselves and that is all society should ask of us as well.
Good Good
> ... At this point family and friends should offer their support,
> help, and encouragement. That is what family and friends are for... without
> help from such folk (which is their moral obligation)

      Woah! I need "moral obligation" defined here. Obligation denotes debt, owed. If you owe it pay it. But Charity is not owed. If it were owed it would not be charity but payment, but maybe I am being picky.
>... "The Rich" are not to blame, most of them do not
> even know who 'we', 'the less fortunate' are... at least not by name.
Well now "The Rich" are to blame for what ever they do. If I should take responsibility for what I do they should also. I am not sure who is meant by "The Rich," but I know their are people who climb to the top over the backs of others. They are not excused of this error or sin by throwing their surplus to the plebeian or nameless masses. True charity or wealth are not measured in amounts but intent, like the poor woman who gave a penny was guilty of more charity than the rich man who gave much. But I do not curse the Rich for they are often their own worse enemy.
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 19:23
> And shame on society for lessening social aid to those who truly do need
> help. I think we might have thrown the baby out with the bath water on
> 'some' social aid cuts (or the more PC term 'reforms').>
Now here I must say God bless the people who cut social aid for it is a blight on the character of the nation. It's cost in integrity, charity and brotherhood alone is to expensive.
If there is charity in the people let them give it of their own free will, if not then don't. But please don't ask the government to take from your neighbor at gun point and dole out the leftovers to those who will make application, supplication and prayer to the state for relief and then call it charity.
"The real destroyers of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." Plutarch, 2000 years ago
"Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of parental care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengths the bonds of a common brotherhood." Grover Cleveland
And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9
Government is not in the Charity business. It is in the redistribution of wealth business for a price and that price is freedom.
"As long as we look to government to solve our problems we will always suffer tyranny." William Pitt
Oh, at first it may seem noble to aid through tax levy or measured vote or voted measure but always at the price of another man's sweat. It always boils down to a loss of freedom because 51% covet the rights and wealth of the 49.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:3
"The world has always been betrayed not by scoundrels but by decent men with bad ideas." Sydney J Harris
This tyrrany has been a long time coming and a long time in the making.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those powers than by violent and sudden usurpations." James Madison
> PS: ... I'm of German, Irish, Welsh
Me too plus Norwegian.
> and Native American (just enough for the rolls) heritage.
I am not native American in the sense of being My family has lived here for over 3 centuries and I was born in America.
>Just an average
> American Veteran doing the best I can with what I've got.
Well I am not that. I did go into the service during Vietnam. I had an appointment to Annapolis set up but I changed my mind at the last minute and let them draft me instead. While I was in the army, they offered me West Point but I turned it down too.
I had a revelation while I was in the Army [that's a good place to have one] and they decided they didn't want my kind in there any more. They wouldn't discharge me. They past a law to allow them to void my induction "as if I had never been in the custudy and control" of the Army. It is called postlimony (sp). This voided the oath I took on entry. Once out I have never taken another oath since.
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: Matthew 5:33
>...I've got no hard feelings against any race or culture
Me too.
Gregory at the ekklesia
The ekklesia writings
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